Why I'm so down on match-3's et al

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by Applewood, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. Shanks

    Shanks New Member

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    dont unnderstand why

    I really dont understand whats in the match - 3 games that has made it such a hit..probably bejeweled set the trend and everyone became addicted and started wanting such games...I myself was addicted to it but I have never
    played another clone of it and have never liked any of the match 3 games..
    infact it has made me averse to even trying the good ol bejeweled..

    I was very recently playing 3 games that were quite remarkably exciting,
    but its a sad thing that they are just not anywhere on the top(except probably the third one)
    I like to play games with weird funny concepts,which are slightly believable at the same time.
    1).Brave piglet :- just makes me laugh everytime I see those funny n naughty wolves...lol !
    The only downside is that you have to click real fast n that aches my wrist in no time
    2).Penguin vs yeti : - a simple and very addictive game.
    3).Tasty planet :- love the idea of growing and ultimately eating away to the cosmos !

    (the developers of the above games can send me their cheques now:D)
     
    #21 Shanks, Apr 9, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2007
  2. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Well, yes and no. No, my little firm couldn't compete in the FPS space or MMORPG etc, so we don't try. We've got a badass pool game that's better than a lot of stuff passed out in the commercial arena though. I've never advocated direct competition with EA, but I just want to see things done right. Without trying to boast, our pool game pisses all over every other indie one I've seen, simply because we're doing it to a pro standard over time instead of rushing out some budget crap, for example. If EA did a pool game, it'd have the WPBSA players in it but would otherwise be no better than ours. This is where we aim to compete - where 98 programmers are not required. Now a pool game is never going to win any innovation awards either, but innovation is another area as far as I'm concerned. I just want to see stuff done properly.[/QUOTE]

    Funnily enough, I don't either. Zuma has been played to death by yours truly on the 360 and I know this is itself a clone of an earlier game. My open derision for match-3 programmers is based largely around the fact that most people seem to do them because they can't manage anything else. The authors of the games above clearly don't fit into that category so I've nothing but respect for them.
     
  3. Twitchfactor

    Original Member

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    I actually think the "lack of understanding" of any genre is one of the things that makes a clone bad.

    People see something that's popular, have no understanding or respect for how it is crafted, come to the conclusion it's crap, attempt to make their own version and lo-and-behold, a stinky mess in a box (or downloaded). This happens in ALL mediums; art, music, movies, books, etc (c'mon, how many of you think you can make a good rap/house/country song?).

    Indie games seem to have this more so, due to the immediate grasp-ability of the core elements of indie games.

    Approaching anything without a full understanding and respect will result in a hollow mimicking, at best.

    To me, when it comes to "indie" development, the whole point of "what sells" should not be a factor. The only factor should be, "what works for YOU". Make a game that's true to you and make it great and that's that.

    Now of course, there are business considerations, of which most people on this forum don't have to worry about. For the ones that do, the best tactic is not to pour everything into your Magnum Opus, but to do like Reflexive does; build the "out of the box" stuff along side the "we know there's a market" stuff and make them both great (don't forget that part).

    I personally love shooters and platformers, but I don't expect my personal game projects to outsell Diner Dash or Bejeweled any time soon. If I'm looking for a meal ticket, some day I'll take the time to analyze, understand & respect a Match-3, then embark on doing something that fits the market and brings something new, to justify people giving me their $20.
     
  4. soniCron

    Indie Author

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    Jeeze. Have we turned into a hobbyist forum? :eek:
     
  5. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    You mean you'd not noticed before ? :confused:

    I don't think there are any forums anywhere where it's just commercial coders helping each other out. They always fill up with l33t h4x0rz ime, who then drown out the content.
     
  6. soniCron

    Indie Author

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    Indeed, I did notice, but I've been secretly wishing it was just my imagination. :(
     
  7. bignobody

    Indie Author

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    Since I'm currently working on a match 3 (or more accurately match 3 matches of 3. Hope it won't confuse the target audience :D ) I guess I'll speak up.

    Let me backtrack a little by saying NotSoft is small time. Its my hobby that I fund with my day job. I'm not expecting it to make me rich, but I would at least like it to pay for itself. That's currently not happening.

    A friend of mine had suggested on more than one occasion to "make a casual game", so I thought about it for a while. I finaly gave in by making it a challenge for myself - "Can I make a matching game that I like?".

    Ultimately, by jumping on the bandwagon and making something market-proven, I hope to be able to have better production values in the following game, which will be anything but casual!
     
  8. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Just don't call it "Minge" or something :D
     
  9. bignobody

    Indie Author

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    Don't worry. Got a "casual friendly" proper name for it. Even registered the .com.
     
  10. zoombapup

    Moderator Original Member

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    Why is everyone so hung up on whats indie, casual or anything else?

    People make match-3's because they sold (once upon a time). Clearly only the better ones now really sell.

    There's certainly nothing inherently evil about a match3 game. I've had plenty of good play time playing different "casual" games, because they are simple time-wasters. Easy session based play. If you want an alternative twist, try something like Strange Adventures in Infinite Space, FastCrawl or the like.

    I do agree that most indie games have poor production values. But then again, I've seen plenty of funded games that were the same :)

    I just think its too easy to get hung up on all this labelling when it serves no purpose. I'm kinda sad that the match-3 noobness has kind of forces some useful people off the forums (Nick, John and Ste), but thats life I guess.

    Me, I just make games that interest me. I play games that interest me. I dont give a crap what someone labels them. I can judge for myself wether I like something or not. Thank god most indie games still have a demo (hell, I doubt I'd ever buy a game without a demo these days).

    Make a killer demo and I'll buy.. simple as that.
     
  11. ragdollsoft

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    Websites like NewGrounds have some pretty cool-innovative stuff in there, much more than commercial portals. Of course there's a ton of crap, but what stands out (the good stuff, thanks to the voting system) has passed the test of thousands of hard-core 13yr olds, not 50 year old housewives.
     
  12. Anthony Flack

    Indie Author

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    Having played around a little bit on 360 Live Arcade, I think if MS can bring that across to the PC completely intact (the same content, the leaderboards, online play, the 360 controller, complete integration with the Xbox service) then it could be the biggest shot in the arm for PC gaming since Doom.

    I'm also very happy that MS are making the effort to establish a de-facto standard PC gamepad (finally), and particularly since the 360 pad is as close to perfection as any gamepad has come I think.
     
  13. Sharpfish

    Original Member

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    while I agree with the sentiment, and I also rate the Xbox360 pad highly (I prefer it to my previous favourite - the GameCube pad), that is when talking about analog. The D-Pad on the 360 controller is really innacurate and is one of the worst i've used. It's ok if we stick to using the thumb sticks however 'cos they are great. :)

    All we need now is MS to give the Pad away to system builders (Dell etc) to help make it a real 'standard'.

    I miss the Amiga, even without a std supplied joystick, almost everyone had one for it anyway (nearly all owners were gamers). :(
     
  14. Anthony Flack

    Indie Author

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    Still room for improvement, huh? I admit, in my short time with the system I never really tried the D-pad. Gotta be better than the horrible Playstation one though, right?

    They are tricky things to get right, it seems. I quite liked the Sega Saturn's one.
     
  15. Josh1billion

    Josh1billion New Member

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    I think hardly anyone would make match-3's (such a dry, same-old same-old genre) if they weren't such huge moneymakers. Stuff like that does very well in the market, perhaps being the most successful single genre in the casual industry.

    That's unfortunate for creative, innovative people like me and you. We actually want to create games that are good, fun, interesting...

    I'd like to see more games with depth topping the portal charts. An RTS, an RPG, even a fighting game... not just another Bejeweled with a different graphics theme. Until that happens, we can't always break the bank by expressing our own ideas...
     
  16. PoV

    PoV
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    Wait... people still think match 3's are big money still? Match 3's are so 2005.
     
  17. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    That's what I though tbh. I mean, surely this bored secretary already has about 107 to chose from. How the hell is she gonna find a new one, and why would she look.
     
  18. LilGames

    LilGames New Member

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    It's all Food Services now, isn't it? ;-D
     
  19. jcottier

    jcottier New Member

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    >It's all Food Services now, isn't it? ;-D
    That's so 2006 .... ;-)

    Now it is all hiden objects.

    JC
     
  20. PoV

    PoV
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    Good, that should keep the people busy for now. I'm hoarding 2008 and 2009. Somebody else can have 2010.
     

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