Whelp I finally bought a Mac today, and I feel like a loser

Discussion in 'Indie Related Chat' started by vjvj, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. vjvj

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    I swear, if anyone hears me utter even the faintest muttering of "It just works", please punch me in the face, ok? :D

    In all seriousness, I picked one up to look at both Mac and iPhone development. I've never owned a Mac, nor do I have any development experience with Mac OS (despite the fact that my uncle worked at Apple for like 20 years; go figure), so I guess now is as good a time as any to start getting some experience there.

    I have a feeling I'm going to like the OSX UI like 10x more than I like Windows... But I'm still going to resist becoming a "real" Mac user!!!
     
  2. Musenik

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    I worked for Apple for four years, and I don't think of myself as a 'real Mac user'. I've been buying them since 1984. They're just a tool. All computers are annoying, some more than others.

    Sure, I could rant about how OS X's Finder is still crap compared to TOS, but I'm past that now.
     
  3. Diragor

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    Good luck! I've found it difficult to avoid becoming a fanatic and trying to talk everyone around me into buying a Mac. I do regularly show the coolest little details to the receptive people around me. :)

    Honestly, I really don't understand how people can use any recent Linux distro, Windows XP/Vista and OS X seriously, each for an extended period, and not come away thinking OS X is dramatically better in most ways than the others. I guess it comes down to what you do with it, but I don't even consider it a close contest for the things I do (particularly for music recording and web development). Two years ago I thought they were overpriced and not that different. I bought one mostly for Unity, but it didn't take long to understand what the big deal was and what makes people Mac fans. Two years later and it definitely was not some novelty that wears off, because I still love it.
     
  4. Diragor

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    Just to demonstrate that I'm not completely brainwashed or something: having windows that are only resizable from one corner is dumb as hell, I'm not at all impressed with Finder, Xcode isn't that great, and the Mail app has a nasty habit of going unresponsive for a looooong time when it can't connect to a mail server. :) It isn't perfect, I just think it kicks the competition's ass in the ways that are important to me.
     
  5. Jack Norton

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    Before falling in love to a mac as developer, just wait until you have to deal with mysterious Xcode settings or people telling you about some unknown bug, and you'll find later that was the last quicktime update that broke everything up...:D
     
  6. vjvj

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    Yeah, I fully believe I will come to like OSX better. The single corner for resizing is retarded, but only confused me for about 5 seconds (guess you can chalk that up to good graphic design for the widgets). And I don't even know what Finder is, LOL.

    The main thing I'm worried about is Xcode. People moving from VS to Xcode always say it sucks, and hardcore Xcode people always say stuff like "Xcode really isn't that bad...", which basically means it sucks. Not that I haven't dealt with crappy IDEs before (like Metrowerks; hello, docking windows? Saving window positions across sessions? Please?), but nevertheless I'm not looking forward to the pain.

    And now I'm going to need to worry about Quicktime breaking my game... LOL.

    I'm just poking fun at the computer sub-culture that's sprouted up as a result of Apple's marketing. I don't feel like I fit in, LOL.
     
  7. Pyabo

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    When you build your first app to run on hardware... edit the Info.plist file and make sure the Bundle identifier matches your provisioning profile appid.

    There, I just saved you 4 hours of frustration. :|

    Unless things have changed with the 2.2 update, Xcode neither does this for you nor is it mentioned in the documentation.
     
  8. Bad Sector

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    I haven't used Mac OS X much, but something that i find amusing is how many people -even people who used computers for many years- who used Windows (and even Linux) before and tried Mac OS have a problem understanding that in the Mac the programs "live" in the menu bar and closing a window doesn't mean closing the program (in Windows and X11 usually programs "live" in windows).
     
  9. vjvj

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    Dude, thank you SO much for this :)

    Mac programs living in the menu bar was weird for me at first, too...
     
  10. elias4444

    elias4444 New Member

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    I'm a recovering IT Engineer, bred and raised in Windows (and MSDOS before that) and submersed in Unix and Linux variants of all sorts. I'm also currently a Mac OSX user for all of my game development and home computer use.

    I like to tell people though, I have equal disdain for all operating systems... I haven't found a perfect one yet.

    Enjoy Mac OS while it's great, but try not to fall into the fanaticism that says it's still the best even if some other OS eventually out-does it. I'm a firm believer in using the right tool for the job.
     
  11. princec

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    I hate it with a vengeance.

    Last good OS I used was BeOS.

    Cas :)
     
  12. Bad Sector

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    The last good OS i used was DOS and it was my primary OS until 2001 when i installed Windows 2000.
     
  13. Jack Norton

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    I actually prefer windows XP over mac os 10x times... from developer point of view. This mainly due to Xcode though, a real nightmare. I know lots of devs that still use alternate IDE to develop on mac.
    And in general mac os seems to be deteriorating in quality. Mac os 10.3.9 was GREAT. then, each update fixes some previous bugs (useless improvements) and adds some new features (bugs).
    Don't take my word for it, just google and you'll see.
    A quick example from C4 engine I just found (from a good developer since he develops a 3d engine):
    "This release addresses some input problems that appeared on the Mac after installing the latest security updates."

    and also from his own forums, question:
    For a newbie at C++ programming under C4, which is better: Xcode or Visual C++ 2008 Express?
    his reply:
    Definitely Visual C++.

    I know nobody that recommends a mac as dev platform. Even unity3d is porting his ide to pc.
     
  14. Xiotex

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    I don't think Macs are better than PC's or PC's are better than Macs. It comes down to what you want out of them. Personally for me it was being sick of crashes in XP and the inevitable XP rot that sets in after 6 months that can usually only be cured by wiping and reinstalling XP. I've had one particular Mac laptop that I abused for nearly 4 years now (by abused I mean install everything I could find) and if I had to reboot it then it goes from cold to fully usable in 30 seconds! Not that I have to do that often because as previously mentioned I never have to reboot the Macs. On the equivalent PC the time taken from cold to usable can me measured in terms of how many films I can see during that time (at least it feels that way). I had high hopes that Vista would solve that issue but it appeared to introduce way too many other issues.

    VS is still the best development environment I have used in my 25+ years of coding and I wish there were a way of using it to code OSX apps but there isn't. However, I will say that in terms of compilation times for like for like projects XCode is a lot faster, however that's a little unfair because there is a lot of crap going on in the XP file system for each file access that slows XP down.
     
  15. Moose2000

    Moose2000 New Member

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    Yes, I'm a Visual Studio / Cold Dead Hands sort of person. But as far as games are concerned, you can have your cake and eat it - there's a certain amount of setup needed for getting your game going on OSX, but once that's in place most of what you'll be doing is in the cross-platform part. I do all my proper coding in VS, then check it in and resync on the mac periodically to check it still works.

    Interesting what you say about performance though - my experience is that VS is massively faster on a full rebuild, and better at not requiring a full rebuild, than xcode (although to be fair, once you've got a favoured platform you're going to be better at tweaking that one to perfection than the others).
     
  16. hippocoder

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    I prefer windows XP with nothing whatsoever on my desktop, a completely minimalist environment that mostly is invisible.

    So my focus is on the programs I use, not the OS.

    Surely thats the mark of a good OS?
     
  17. Diragor

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    Hold on there. Ask the Unity guys why they're porting to Windows and I'll bet my next paycheck they'll say it's only because there's a big market there waiting for them. I'll also bet their primary dev machines for the product will continue to be Macs. (I'm basing this on things I've read from them in their forums.)

    Also, don't forget that Xcode is not the only development tool on the Mac, and desktop apps are not the only kind of development you can do. I certainly don't dispute that Visual Studio is much better than Xcode, but I do more web development than anything else at the moment, primarily Ruby on Rails, and Windows is the worst platform for that kind of work (IMHO). So, my recommendation of a Mac "as dev platform" would depend greatly on what kind of development you're talking about.
     
  18. Jack Norton

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    yes well, I meant xcode sorry :) not mac in general. I tend to identify mac=xcode but as you said there are other tools.
     
  19. Xiotex

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    Oh the irony. No sooner have a posted above about how reliable my Macs have been when the latest goes and dies on me.
     
  20. Acord

    Acord New Member

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    If I had the money, I'd buy one just to mess around with Unity :)
     

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