New chip will stop Piracy dead in its tracks?

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by MFS, May 25, 2008.

  1. MFS

    MFS New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. papillon

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,193
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, they're going to hardware-lock games so you have to buy them again if your motherboard starts sending up blue smoke? Then I won't be buying those games in the first place. :)
     
  3. GolfHacker

    GolfHacker Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    0
  4. papillon

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,193
    Likes Received:
    0
    That video's no good in my opinion - flashy graphics, bad English, lack of detail... taking a lot of time to say not very much. :)
     
  5. mot

    mot
    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

    The reasoning that "you can hear music, so you can copy it, but games have code so it'll work for them" seems a little weird to me. It has to be decrypted at some point, and then it can be copied. Right?
     
  6. roussec

    roussec New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not think that something isolated on a machine without any online validation will ever work. As long as there is no permanent validation it will possbile to break it.
     
  7. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,859
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yep, absolutely right. It will take pirates a few more days to get their shit together with this, but that's about it.

    And like papillon suggests, legit users will get screwed when things go wrong. So the only loser is the customer base. Nice!

    This sort of thing makes pirates out of otherwise honest souls. I ran a pirate version of 3DS Max on my home machine for a long time, for when I kept forgetting to bring the bloody dongle home...
     
  8. KNau

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    2
    Oh my god - the dongle! :) Remember some of the plug-ins used to have dongles too? You'd end up with a line of stupid dongles out the back of your PC - it was ridiculous. And such a waste of time and money for the developers to go through manufacturing a piece of hardware as the copy protection.
     
  9. moose6912

    moose6912 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2007
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    0
    A dongle? I remember those things. Real pain to use and it took up 1 usable slot that can be used for other stuff.
     
  10. Adrian Cummings

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oooh you total crim! but you won't have to bring it home in this case as it will be hardwired to into your mobo, so no excuses this time round :)

    I think it's a good idea and will help slow piracy down at least. Thing is, you have your more hardcore pirates (the ones that actually crack the games) and then you have the more casual pirates (the ones that courier them about in the main part and have no technical ability to crack them but like to think they are cracking and breaking them etc. LOL)

    If it helps slow down or stop the later 'at least' then that has to be a good thing for many developers.

    Regards your machine blowing up and rendering your games useless well the chances of that are small and I'm sure there is a way around that problem that will be considered up front.

    I'd be interested to see how this pans out in future, as good old Nolan is the man behind mostfun.com or chairman of the board at least at NeoEdge and I think his heart is in the right place at least if nothing else.

    Give em a chance lads/ladettes - it might even work! :)
     
    #10 Adrian Cummings, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  11. Mattias Gustavsson

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would think that anyone who is "chairman of the board" only have their heart in one place: the shareholders pockets :p
     
  12. Adrian Cummings

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think some of you more cynical developers should give the man a little more credit for his efforts that's all. Afterall without his seed efforts in the industry in the past, none of us would have an industry as it is now to work in most likely.
     
    #12 Adrian Cummings, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  13. cliffski

    Moderator Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can see the argument that stuff like this (and securom) 'only punishes the honest buyers', which is why I am so 100% in favour of fake files, takedown requests, and other attempts to cause chaos on warez sites. If I upload a fake file to a warez site, the ONLY people who are inconvenienced are the pirates. It's the 100% flipside to DRM.
     
  14. Adrian Cummings

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    :)

    To be honest I assume nobody here is going to have a say or any weight in the choice anyway of fitting of these chips to the mobo's at least?, given indeed that it will probably end up in just about every PC / Mac down the line if Nolan is very lucky.

    If it's fitted in new machines I would use it rather than not personally given it's one more off-putting barrier to the casual pirate of which there are millions and millions around the globe.

    He will never stop the hardcore however given as they say... if it can be made it can be broken.

    His initial plan is to recoup much of the lost revenues from Asia/Indian piracy it seems - yes well I'll drink to that given it is rife in them there parts for starters.

    As for takedown requests route etc... whilst that has my full support also it's just one more tool in the toolbox against piracy but not the answer either.

    To not even try is the biggest failure of all and I see Nolan as proactive person trying here not another moaner therefore I don't share the vision of some here :) I'm on his side of the fence on this at least.

    While we all chatted here prolly another x amount of copies of our games just got the jolly roger torrent treatment more to the point.

    I imagine in reality there to be quite a few casual pirates on this very board already :)
     
    #14 Adrian Cummings, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  15. defanual

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go ahead...

    Ah well, look at it like this. If the board chipping thing penalizes the customer more then they are already have been or more so then the pirates, it will be another opportunity for indie games to dominate the pc/mac market (this is likely to be use by AAA's mostly), meaning theoretically/potentially more gamers and more money for us!:D

    I say go ahead, do it, between not wanting make demos any more and having ridiculously high system specs that just about run (crash) on your system, the pc AAA market should increase the speed of the currently inevitable outcome they're moving towards ;)
     
  16. Spore Man

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't envision this chip being any more of a penalty than requiring a customer to "register" and receive a serial number (with one exception).

    Steps to buy such a game:

    1. You buy the game.
    2. You or automated software looks up your unique chip's indentifier number.
    3. You receive a password based on that unique identifier that then permits the game to operate. (hopefully a one-time step?)

    This is the same number of steps and "inconvenience" as online verification already is. The only caveat is of course as already mentioned, what the hell happens when you upgrade your motherboard???
     
    #16 Spore Man, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  17. chanon

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    0
    The online activation server would have to track where the software is installed to. The user using his/her online account/password would be able to move their license to a new machine/mainboard.

    At this point people will complain about the f..ingly annoying DRM and use it as their excuse for buying mod chips to circumvent the protection.

    About 1% of those will be absolutely honest when they say that.

    Not saying what I think whether this is good or bad .. just what will probably happen.

    If the protection is really really good though, then this could really help stop casual piracy. Some (or lots) of people will be very pissed off though and there will be resentment towards anyone who chooses to use this protection scheme.

    Basically in my view, you can't change people who don't want to pay for things. So you make stuff for the people who are willing to pay .. and for those that are not willing to pay, you make free stuff and make money from ads.
     
    #17 chanon, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  18. Nexic

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of course a cracker can still just completely remove the activation system from software so this will delay the pirates only a few days whilst screwing over regular users. Nice.
     
  19. Gary Preston

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't see how this will even dent piracy, perhaps I've mis-understood how this is supposed to work?

    PC's have to be capable of running unsigned content so I assume TPM would be used to allow content to be decrypted. If the content wasn't encrypted, then it would be cracked/distributed just as happens today.

    That implies the private key to decrypt the data is stored inside the TPM chip and it would only be a matter of time before some hardware hacker has stripped the layers back and examined the chip details. Assuming there isn't a flaw in the implementation that allows an alternative route.

    End users wouldn't even need to mod their PC, since it would only need one person to obtain the private key and produce an unsigned/decrypted version of the game/assets and upload those to a torrent/other warez site. Which is different from the console world, where it's the signing key that's important as only signed games can be run and that only requires the public key to be hidden somewhere in the hardware.

    EDIT: EFF Article on this subject.
     
    #19 Gary Preston, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
  20. electronicStar

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is the last in a long list of attempts to stop piracy via technological means, and like starforce and like all the previous attempts it will most likely fail.
    Everybody can already see how it will mostly affect legitimate users and how pirates will probably have it cracked before it is even released, I wouldn't be surprised if it raised anough controversy to prevent this chip to ever reach mass production (anybody remember the 'on-chip Serial number'? (Well if you are paranoid, you could argue that the 'on-chip serial number' could be secretely deployed inside our computers right now, but the fact is that it can't be used in court or for any other legal issue) )
     

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer