Kongregate pay-to-play flash games

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by Jack Norton, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. tfowers

    tfowers New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah - Sorry, our data is definitely conflicting. Now Boarding is more a Time Management game with Tycoon elements. Clockwords is more an arcade style game. 40% of Now Boarding sales are out of the US. Clockwords is barely played outside english speaking countries. Clockwords is a simple game that relies on skill / performance (and vocabulary). Now Boarding requires timing, but not nearly as much pressure. There are a lot of differences, but those are the thoughts off the top of my head.
     
  2. Bmc

    Bmc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    2
    And yet new people succeed all the time.
     
  3. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, of those 10.000 games mostly (close to 99%) are crap (including mine of course).
     
  4. electronicStar

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't understand the people who setup flash portals and when you land there all you see is stick men figure games and stolen ip and crap and tons of flashing ads, does this business model work?
     
  5. andrew

    andrew New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    For portals surely works... when you start having such incredible high traffic even poor eCPM makes you lot of money :)
     
  7. danhezee

    danhezee New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    And mine, too. Game development is hard, the barriers of entry are low. That equals crap. Downloads are 99% crap as well. and BFG has a front page with thousands of games.

    This is a very interesting thread. I dont believe the casual flash games are getting $86 ecpm. Maybe a game that implements a good inventory system might get $8.60 ecpm. The conversion rate for non-payers to payers is going to be 3% or less. Why did I say 3% because that is what zynga is getting. For a one or two man studio, I doubt you will spend alot time creating a thorough system to convert the non-payers to payers on top of building a fun addictive game.
     
  8. danhezee

    danhezee New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0

    tfowers, I love clockwords. Didnt you win the mochi contest last year? if not, you should have.
     
  9. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes but BFG entry barrier is higher, at least for the asset production. You can make an average flash game with $500 budget, while you can't do any HO/casual game with such misery :D
     
  10. Mike Boeh

    Administrator Original Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    0
    If we're discussing a buy model, I think you're underestimating the graphic quality of flash games. Sure, there are plenty of nasty flash games out there, but only the good ones would dare ask for your money. We're talking about development efforts that rival high-end casual, easily. Lots of game play, AAA visuals, etc.
     
  11. kys01212

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    i don't think games from ninjakiwi or sean cooper have AAA visual.

    some AAA visual games don't do that well anyways. Look at Back2Back and compare it with Warlords: Call to Arms. 13mil on Kongregate alone. Also Age of War, Dream World.

    The Hook is most important for a game to succeed I think. Hook, addiction, Hook, addiction, Hook, addiction, Hook, addiction,...... space crack. if only I could find the right formula.

    Kevin
     
  12. Over00

    Over00 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I submitted 2 games to Kongregate. The first one was just a 3 days experiment and the other one an integrated version of my MMO which is using their kreds.

    These "new people" that succeed are part of thousands of submissions of which not all are crappy (I won't argue about the % of crap). Out of the 2 games submitted none lasted more than 10 hours on the first page of the "new games" section that keeps getting flooded with new submissions. 48 hours after submission it was nearly impossible to find them in the "new games" section or anywhere for that matter (both are still online but just very hard to find).

    Staff of Kongregate told me that a rating of at least around 3.8 is required for a game to be considered for the front page. So it means that in 10-24 hours you must hope that the "right people" rate your game so it gets further visibility. If not then it's pretty much over because people that might like your game will just not be able to stumble upon it. If you submit a game before going to bed then it might be well over once you wake up ...

    So yeah new people make the front page every day and thousands don't. They don't all produce crap though. I'm sure there are some nice stuff there I would enjoy that I will just never get to see because the rating didn't get high enough before it disappeared among the thousands of submissions.

    The cheap shooter I made is rated 2.36 (not bad for 3 days of work) and Golemizer is rated 3.49 which is still not that bad but just not enough to ever make the front page or get further players.
     
    #32 Over00, Apr 30, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
  13. Bmc

    Bmc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'm not the one who said 99% are crap.

    As will most things in business it's the right product, at the right time ,for the right audience and a little bit of luck.
     
  14. Over00

    Over00 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know but others can still read the post ;)

    I just use that as a starting point and I then went in different direction than what I though I would go but you're right I should have picked Jack's post instead.
     
  15. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well didn't want to offend you or anyone else, sorry if I did. Maybe crap isn't the right term, or maybe the percentage isn't 99% but lower.
    Still, just to make a comparison, have you ever heard of someone making a game in 3 days and that it appeared on BFG? ;)
    I'm not criticizing flash, rather the opposite, since seems easier/possible for 1-man to appear on kongregate and maybe make even some decent money, while I don't think any casual game is made by 1 man alone anymore?
    Maybe is too early to compare since the flash games that use pay model aren't too many...
     
  16. Nexic

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never managed to get a game on the front page of any major downloadable portal (despite plenty of submissions), but I have managed to get 5/5 games submitted on to the front pages of both kongregate and newgrounds. So Jack is right, it is a lot easier to generate exposure with the flash route.
     
  17. Jack Norton

    Indie Author

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,130
    Likes Received:
    0
    As long as you put zombies into the game! ;)
     
  18. electronicStar

    Original Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,068
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's true, flash is the most accessible place for deploying games right now.
    That's why it can be a good start for an indie game develloper. That's why I tolearate all the crap games, I think somewhere in the rough there are potentially a few talented indie devellopers with limited ressources.
     
  19. Bad Sector

    Original Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    5
    Not really :-(
     

Share This Page

  • About Indie Gamer

    When the original Dexterity Forums closed in 2004, Indie Gamer was born and a diverse community has grown out of a passion for creating great games. Here you will find over 10 years of in-depth discussion on game design, the business of game development, and marketing/sales. Indie Gamer also provides a friendly place to meet up with other Developers, Artists, Composers and Writers.
  • Buy us a beer!

    Indie Gamer is delicately held together by a single poor bastard who thankfully gets help from various community volunteers. If you frequent this site or have found value in something you've learned here, help keep the site running by donating a few dollars (for beer of course)!

    Sure, I'll Buy You a Beer