Why don't you go tell the BioShock guys that they should have written their code in Java or C# and see what they say? Just because you can't doesn't mean other indies can't. But I have written 3d drivers for money, and I've written a few of my own 3d engines. I'm capable of looking up Java benchmarks and discussing them. Credibility, where I come from, means showing your benchmarks and not making performance claims you can't back up. I haven't seen didly doo from you proving that Java can run as fast as C++ for performance intensive applications. I've only heard excuses from you why a 50% drop in performance really shouldn't matter, because you're supposed to be an impoverished indie who can't afford to do any better.