Okay let me take a crack at this one more time. Was the original post about your informed or uninformed opinion? Here are some great games from a gamemaker named jph_iterationGAMES I went to school for microbiology and took 1 class in VB 6.0. So..... I suck at programming and I'm no artist so its not gamemakers fault that I code badly and make crappy art now is it? I could just as easily make a bad java game, but it would be harder, to code that is. Infact, I remember a review on Gametunnel a few years ago about a paddle game made in one of those real languages that just blew. Lets face it you programmers make more money than I did working at a pharmaceutical company, and they paid well Keep in mind how many kids are making gamemaker games vs adults with money and coding kungfu super mojo.