Five golden rules (for newbie indies)

Discussion in 'Indie Basics' started by Jack Norton, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. anpd

    Indie Author

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    That was an even bigger problem a couple of years ago. I am from sweden and they refused to speak english or even try to understand. This is offcourse not true for all french people :)
     
  2. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Try to imagine this one. Take a run up if needed. I would call it.... wait for it....

    ...

    ...

    ...

    A computer game.

    You seem to be the one who wants to sub-categorise everything, not me.

    Not just being facetious, merely finishing off where you were coming from, which is almost correct. The reality is that the end user doesn't give a monkeys toss what you call yourself and would skip your logo screen via <esc> if you gave them the option.

    And this is fine, do you know or care who made the keyboard you're typing on?
     
    #122 Applewood, Aug 17, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  3. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Nope, there's a name for that also. It's called "a game development company." I have my own very small company, but there's nothing indie about it, yet. Might never be indie because anything we do that's self-funded we'll always be looking for a publisher deal first because even with everything else equal we have no marketing people.
     
  4. Bad Sector

    Original Member

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    Its not only Asian tourists, a (Greek) english teacher i know once told me that when she went to France in a couple of occasions she went to shops and the people there acted as if they didn't understood English and ignored her. However in both cases, as she was going to leave the shop, they changed their tune and spoke English nicely.

    I've heard other similar stories too but not in that detail. It seems that the French don't like English :)

    @Applewood:
    Of course i know: Apple :).

    And many people (especially programmers) go crazy about their keyboards. I know three programmers who wanted those old IBM Model-M keyboards and decided to order them from United States and pay up to 100 euros for them (cost + shipping, etc).
     
  5. bantamcitygames

    Administrator Original Member Indie Author Greenlit

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    I consider myself an indie because my 'indie author' badge says so! :p

    sorry... couldn't resist
     
  6. Cevo70

    Cevo70 New Member

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    A computer game?

    I like the buildup but that felt so anticlimactic. Doesn't seem to work at all and misses consoles and handhelds (but I guess for you those are just computer too? No need to be more accurate..?) No idea - you're all over the place, first seeming to segregate further by saying only a select few here can be called indies, now lumping everyone together under "computer games."

    Meh - I had a big reply typed out in the spirit of debate, but will pass I think. Stubborn knows stubborn when he sees it. :)
     
    #126 Cevo70, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  7. Backov

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    That's actually bullshit.

    I lived in Paris for a year, and I speak basically 0 French. When I tried they didn't understand me - it's not that they pretended not to understand me, they literally didn't understand. Even my good friends there, I'd say something they'd go "What?" - I'd repeat it, and eventually I'd write it down. Then they'd go "OH! <blah said exactly the same way I said it, to my ear>!"

    There may be the stereotypical rude Parisian in Paris - there probably is, but I never met one. They appear to be just much more sensitive to pronunciation differences.
     
  8. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    You know, you're right!

    Consoles aren't computers after all, and here's me thinking they were for all these years. See, I'm not stubborn at all - I'm always up for revelations.

    Just a brief reminder again: It's actually you who is arguing over segregation and buttonholing every game into categories by what it runs on, how much was spent on it, whether a publisher was involved.

    M: "It's your birthday next week Johhny. What do you want?"
    J: "A game please, mom"
    M: "Computer or board"
    J: "I don't own a computer."
    M: "So what is that under the telly?"
    J:" An Xbox mom"
    M: "So do you want a game for that?"
    J: "Yes please, but it has to be an indie game"
    M: "A what?"
    J: "A game that's done on the cheap"
    M: "Why would you want that?"
    J: "Because the authors think its important"
    M:" What, to be done on the cheap?"
    J: "No, to be called indie"
    M: "Fair enough, what does it mean anyway?"
    J: "No idea. Even the devs don't know"
    M: "So, I'll ask the man in the shop"
    J: "You can't buy these in the shop"
    M: "..."
    J: "Forget it. Can I have a dog?"
     
  9. Bad Sector

    Original Member

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    Fortunately indie games in XBox360 are bought directly from the console and future consoles will probably promote digital distribution more than today. So Johnny will be able to buy the games himself and Mom will only have to worry about buying those point cards :).

    Also i have that impression that many Moms would stop at "Yes please, but it has to be an indie game" and then ask at the shop about an "indie game". What Johnny would get is unknown but it seems that he isn't going to get an indie game :).

    Probably people who want buy indie games need to look for them - like searching for "indie games" in Google or something :p.
     
  10. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Total agreement. But where's the upside to that?

    I'm sure there are people that buy only indie games on some sort of principle, but I'd much rather target the people that just buy games. And pass myself off as a normal developer and not some sort of special case that requires an explanation that few people will be interested in.

    We're going over old ground again here, but the only case I see for promoting your indieness is if you're saying "We're redoing Avatar but without the cheesy plot that big studio execs enforce, because we're small and we can".

    Fine, show me Avatar done smaller and "better". Not your mom in a blue diving suit with some greasepaint on.
     
  11. princec

    Indie Author

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    There's a market for that :)

    Cas :)
     
  12. Mattias Gustavsson

    Original Member

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    I think that sometimes, at least outside of games, the term "indie" can be used as meaning "alternative" or outside the mainstream. Used that way, I could see it working for marketing, in that it is a way of saying "this is different from mainstream games, so if you'd like something different, this might be for you". But I can't help thinking that "alternative games" would be a better term for that than "indie games".
     
  13. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    tbh I can accept that part of the argument quite easily. But, it doesn't tally with most "indie" games which aren't actually alternative, they're just cut down or retro or basically anything that's cheap.

    Apart from the HOG's etc that aren't even alternative - they're a mainstream thing on their own merits.

    An indie film doesn't have the budget of Avatar, but you'd still find it a withering sum of money if you were the guy funding it.
     
  14. RichHW

    RichHW New Member

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    Suprised by the debate on definitions!

    If you design and develop your own game, regardless of how much it earns, you're an indie. I would argue that the whole indie spirit is the opposite of the earning x thousand per month approach.

    You do something because you love doing it, with the ultimate aim to earn enough to make a decent living.
     
  15. JarkkoL

    JarkkoL New Member

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    That's your definition of it and not everyone share that definition. For me indie means financial independency, not hobbyist doing games in their spare time. It means that you are not dependent of one or very few sources of income. It means you can say "fuck you" to any single person and it doesn't get you in financial trouble ;)
     
  16. RichHW

    RichHW New Member

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    Creative independence, surely? You could for example be developing for several months without any income, working toward full financial independence - but along the way you are still very much an indie developer.
     
  17. JarkkoL

    JarkkoL New Member

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    Financial independency implies creative independency, not other way around.
     
  18. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    That's technically accurate to some degree, but in the same vain that actors "choose to rest" instead of "be unemployed".

    I could claim to be an aspiring ballerina in my down time, but it doesn't make me either a professional or an indie one later. (If you'd seen me in person you'd appreciate the notion better!)

    Get your game done, live normally off the earnings of it, without publishers or anyone else assisting, and you can claim your indieness and I'll salute you. You will then be amongst the 1% of indies who are actually indie.
     
  19. totor

    totor New Member

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    I am french, so i can tell you that a lot of french people don't speak english. Fortunately, it's now almost mandatory at school so things will improve.

    The pronunciation difference works the same way when i go to Germany and ask for my way in german, exactly what you wrote. Or when a japanese try to ask me something in french.
     
  20. Indinera

    Moderator Indie Author

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    It's hardly possible to know that kind of % for sure.
     

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