Artist/Animator wanted to help me kick the crap out of Angry Birds!

Discussion in 'Help Wanted (PAID ONLY)' started by GoldenJoe, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. GoldenJoe

    GoldenJoe New Member

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    Are you tired of boring little trashy "flick and forget" games yet? I know I am. That's why I set out to prove that even with a concept as tired as Angry Birds, you can create gameplay that is easy to learn and challenging to master together with a presentation that is engaging and humorous. How about instead of making the player feel like an idiot because their three year old has more stars, giving the player a real gaming experience that takes skill to complete, and makes the player feel accomplished when they finally beat the final boss? Let's put the "GAME" back in "Mobile Games".

    I've been developing a runner/action type game. Basically, this is the polar opposite of Angry Birds - you're a pig fighting off birds in a fast paced setting. The engine is almost completely done, I just need actual assets to progress. Lucky for you, my aspiring artists, I'm not half bad with a pen and pad, and am providing detailed sketches of every major frame for the player character, enemies, and environment. You will have to follow the art style I provide exactly. I'm looking for bold, saturated colors. Cartoony, but not entirely generic if you get my drift.

    This game has some pretty cool stuff in it. The engine supports game speed modification (for example, bullet time), and has a fake camera that can be used to zoom the game environment in and out. Even the bosses have a unique finishing sequence. This is definitely a great opportunity for anyone interested in mobile games.

    Obviously, I don't have the budget of a full studio since I've done this all in my spare time, but I'm willing to pay for quality. Send me a message or email (my user name @gmail.com) with the following. If I like what I see, I'll send you a simplified game doc so you can see all the enemies and such.

    - examples of past work
    - your availability and rates
    - any references you may have
    - a brief description of your favorite portable game, and why it's your favorite
    - your reason for wanting to work on this game

    Deliverables:
    - all frames in vector format (Illustrator)
    - a saved copy in .png format, optimized for the iOS retina display (such as Photoshop's "save for web and devices->24 bit png" option)

    Oh, and I'll be looking for a music/sound guy soon enough. Tell your friends.
     
  2. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    How can you kick the crap out of Angry Birds with no budget? There's tons of games that are better than that one imo, but it's success is down to marketing spend.
     
  3. gamer247

    gamer247 New Member

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    Does it matter Applewood?
    They guy says he is willing to pay anyway. Only not too much - since he doesn't have a studio budget.
    To beat Angry Birds or not to beat?
    GL anyways
     
  4. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Doesn't matter to me, I just don't like misrepresentation. Some guy might offer to do this for a 1% cut based on an expectation that will never materialise.
     
  5. GoldenJoe

    GoldenJoe New Member

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    Applewood, I'm afraid that if you are waiting for someone to come by this forum with two million dollars to spend on marketing a game, you will be waiting quite some time.

    You are wrong about the success of a game coming down to marketing spread. Perhaps you should do some research into how some of the most popular mobile games came to be. Obviously, having a large amount of disposable capital is a huge advantage, but none of the top games ran out the gate with a huge marketing campaign. Not even Angry Birds.

    That's beside the point, anyway. I'm not misrepresenting anything. My game IS a better game than Angry Birds. I don't really care if it fails to gross two hundred million dollars or whatever. I'm here to prove mobile games can be much more, and that casual players can enjoy games of greater depth, and eventually mature their taste. I will kick the crap out of Angry Birds when I watch someone expressing emotion (excitement, laughter, surprise) while playing, as opposed to the listless stare of mindlessly flinging and hoping to get lucky.

    Making some money would be great. The more the better; I'd love to use it to start a studio. But until then, you're just gonna have to pull up your bootstraps like I have. Why else would you be on this site?
     
  6. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    I'm not waiting for anyone to come by for anything. Doing perfectly fine without any angry birds killing. :)

    There's a lot of games better than Angry birds, I consider some of mine to be as well. However when you say "Angry Birds killer" the only understanding that brings is killing it in the charts. And you know that very well.

    Your second post sounds more than reasonable, but your first one says to me. "I can has teh skillz to be a w1nnor". If you do have the skills then you're doing yourself a disservice by making silly claims.

    Shit, I've seen some clones that are better than the original imo, but where are they in the chart?!
     
  7. Nexic

    Indie Author

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    Always bothers me when people ask for this kind of stuff. Has no bearing on the actual project and implies you may choose someone over another based purely on whether or not they are able to throw the right brand of BS at you. Let the portfolio and references speak for themselves. Note that the correct answer to #2 should always be "the money". Anything else is either a lie, or means they'll just get bored and run away half way through.


    In the first paragraph you say you're making a clone of Angry Birds, and then in the next you say it's going to be the polar opposite? *confused*
     
  8. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Yep, and for a freelancer the only honest and correct answer is: "Because you're going to pay me". Which is perfectly fine.

    If an artist wants to work on a dream project out of love, he will have already found one.
     
  9. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Also a bit concerned about what is a cool and hardcore engine feature worthy of mentioning. Here's the code in my engine to support bullet-time. You can guess how long it took to write and it worked nicely first time:

    Code:
    tF32	RZTimeMgr_Base::GetFramePeriodS (tBOOL IgnoreBulletTime/*default=true*/)
    {
    	if (IgnoreBulletTime)	
    	{
    		tF32	LastTime;
    		LastTime=GlobalLastIntervalRealTime;
    		if (LastTime>100)
    			LastTime=100;
    
    		return LastTime*0.001f;
    	}
    	else
    	{
    		tF32	LastTime;
    		LastTime=GlobalLastIntervalBulletTime;
    		if (LastTime>100)
    			LastTime=100;
    
    		return LastTime*0.001f;
    	}
    }
    
    
    
    tVOID 	RZTimeMgr_Base::SetBulletTimeScaler (tF32 Munge)
    {
    	if (Munge<0)
    		Munge=0;
    
    	BulletTimeScaler=Munge;
    }
    
    tVOID	RZTimeMgr::PeriodicMunge (tVOID)
    {
    // Called once per frame to update the internal timer state
    
    	// Do all math for time that flows at a constant 1 second per second!
    	tF32 TimeNow=tF32(GetMillisecondsElapsed());
    	GlobalElapsedRealTime=TimeNow;
    	GlobalLastIntervalRealTime=TimeNow-TimeLastRead;
    	TimeLastRead=TimeNow;
    	AvgFrameRate=AvgFrameRate*0.99f+GlobalLastIntervalRealTime*0.01f;
    
    	// Do the variable time stuff. Stephen Hawking can lick my balls
    	tF32 Prev=GlobalElapsedBulletTime;
    	GlobalElapsedBulletTime+=GlobalLastIntervalRealTime*BulletTimeScaler;
    	GlobalLastIntervalBulletTime=GlobalElapsedBulletTime-Prev;
    }
    
     
  10. Sysiphus

    Original Member

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    Actually, am an artist, take a gig from time to time(my plate of food comes from a salary), and... Well, I think anyone like me that has made some graphics in his/her life tend to run away from large promises of gonna get the world statements. I mean, I'm not some totally negative person who thinks any project like this is going to fail, because there's always a possibility, but imo, the more experienced the artist, the less he cares about the future of the game, or a great idea, and only considers the payment, in which amount, and if not up front, well tied and/or by stages/pieces. Other than that, any other talk... IMHO, the exchange of promise and future instead of the right money amount might work if the one offering the gig is a stablished developer (but those all tend to do fair pay), or the advantage might be a long term stable source (again, is hard to prove/know that beforehand), but if the reader is not an amateur that anyway would find blocks in the middle of the project (just of technical or even emotional nature) imho is very rare that being experienced at least enough to get into a project with some chances of doing ok the work, whoever the person would take the risk...and less in these moments. Even if the economies were wealthy now, those with the experience to do what is needed in a game, have already been in several projects of certain kind.

    My 2c. I indeed rather prefer a humble and realistic approach, even if reality is not very hopeful, the honest (honesty is sure here like in most cases, just in some there's not a lot of reality check) side counts for many points already.

    Don't get me wrong. I think the project might be quite brilliant, indeed. I'm saying that to attract some pro guy, might be better other way to put it...IE: Not anymore, but till recently, I was eager to take part even in almost-free games which involved some 3D character fighting animation, (just for some practice and 'cause I like that kind of animation) and even longer ago, was ready to offer even free concept art but to very stablished publishers, just to get my name out there (and as is my other favorite profile). But it gets to a point one's hour must not pay lower than a kid's car washing hour. And the amount of work to do leaves the hour lower than that in most cases... If the hunt is for a highschool or college kid... Good luck with the project. (There can always be luck).
     
  11. GoldenJoe

    GoldenJoe New Member

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    Wow. Can't say I'm very impressed with this forum. Your attitudes are terrible. Guess I'm lucky this isn't the only place to look for help.
     
  12. dannthr

    dannthr New Member

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    Well, I think asking for a reason why someone would want to work on a game is a bit premature when there is barely a game described or intimated in the OP.

    I'm concerned that the OP's website links to a couple of game screen shots that somehow include characters from Mario Bros, Sonic, and Final Fantasy. I find it incredibly unlikely that the OP would have license to use Nintendo, Sega, and Square Enix characters and be developing a low-budget title... perhaps all their budget was spent on character licensing?

    It's frustrating to see all this bravado on the opening post because it feels like over-compensation.

    I don't even see Angry Birds as the game design to beat. It can be frustrating to look at the top of the success pile and feel like there was minimal talent to reach that point and generally feel like a talented crew and some lightning elbow grease can beat the tar out of a game like that.

    But it feels like your priorities are confused by your overly passionate response to the apparent unfairness of the world.

    What is there to "beat" at Angry Birds if not its success? Any other quality to one-up over Angry Birds isn't actually saying much, it's a fairly simple game that mostly rides its success on the charm of its character design (as best I can see), since there's already tons of games like Angry Birds and some that predate Angry Birds.


    There's nothing wrong with ambition as long as there's solid skill and experience to back it up, otherwise it's just talk (or of course, if there's a working demo that shows off legitimate awesomeness).


    I guess I'm saying that the proof is in the rocketsauce.


    Personally, and strangely enough, I'm actually in the design phases of a highly interactive music system using the WWISE (Wave Works Interactive Sound Engine) that would be designed specifically for a very cartoony infinte runner game. Though, my plan was to show it off on indiegamer and various other forums/mailing-lists when I had a working proof-of-concept rather than tease people in during the design process. I'm a professional, I do what I'm told and make the music people want me to make and do excellent work and typically get paid well for it. I would love the games I work on to be recognized en masse by the purchasing public, but that's not the whole reason I'm doing this work. I want to make interesting and innovative interactive art.

    As someone who could offer quite a lot to this sort of project, I am definitely into partnering on a project that promises to be a fascinating work to develop and a highly engaging and original resulting product.

    But I'm turned-off by trash talking and big promises and deferred reward for satisfying one man's supposedly world-changing and ground-breaking vision. It's like a massive ego masturbation and it's always worsened when the OP is defensive and insulting in response to the seasoned nay-saying and tempered eye-rolling (which inevitably chimes in).


    Is there anything that you can show us that will really court us to having faith in your ideas?
     
  13. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Yep, just professionals here. Best ignore us and go get your ego massaged over at gd.net

    This, before you ask.
     
  14. gamer247

    gamer247 New Member

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    Agreed with Apple as usual. These forums mainly for people with higher level of experience then the OP. You'd be better off with gamedev.net
    Delusional ambitious students may think they are mistreated here, in fact even a negative advice may be the right one.
     
  15. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Negative advice is usually the most useful. By the time someone knows the score, they should be able to get mostly right answers for themselves.
     
  16. GMarkou

    Original Member

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    Ok, totally off-topic, but I really like Applewood's code comments... :)
     
  17. Applewood

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Hehe, I know exactly the line you're on about - it's become quite infamous :)
     
  18. gpetersz

    Original Member

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    Well, yeah. :) I spotted it out, but was shy to mention...

    on-topic: yes, my attitude is terrible too, as an artist I wouldn't apply for this post either... :cool:
     
  19. Wrote A Game or Two

    Wrote A Game or Two New Member

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    As someone who has written two games that have made all of about $40 or so in sales, I feel qualified enough to tell you that when the guys who have actually made decent money writing games talk, it's a good idea to listen. They know what they're talking about. And hurt feelings won't help your game get better. Only truthful, honest (and yes, even brutal) feedback can do that. And that will only work if you choose to listen.

    I will also humbly offer this bit of advice. Ask yourself why you are alienating your core target audience. Think about that. You want to beat Angry birds, right? You're trying to attract Angry Birds players and give them a better experience right? Hence the whole Pig fights Bird concept, right? Well Angry Birds players LIKE mindless flinging. Otherwise, why would they play it? So why are you trying to give them something completely different?

    Take Peggle for example. Ever play Peggle? Talk about mindless. Once you aim and release the ball, that's it - you have no other control over what happens next. None. It's tempting to say "well hell, any idiot can make a game that's better than that" but I can tell you firsthand that someone who enjoys playing Peggle will not enjoy your "better" game as much, simply because they LIKE playing a mindless shoot-and-pray game like Peggle. So if you hope to achieve meteoric success by getting Angry Birds players to play your game instead because it is "better" - i.e. the exact polar opposite, well that has as much chance of success as I would have convincing my 17 year old son to attend the opera instead of going to see a Green Day concert just because opera is "better". Better to whom? If it's not better to him, he's gonna go watch Green Day. Right?

    Folks in here tend to come off as jaded, snobbish, sometimes even downright pricks at times but I value their opinion much more than some deluded fanboy (of which you can find any number of elsewhere) who has never written a complete game, let alone made any money at it. The fact that they take the time to come in here and humor us newbies is rather humbling. They don't have to reply, you know. They could just smirk at your post, not say anything, and let you learn it the hard way like they did.

    Best of luck on your project.
     
  20. erek

    erek New Member

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    >Are you tired of boring little trashy "flick and forget" games yet?

    Stopped reading there.

    As an artist, those kind of remarks always gets in my nerves. I worked with a similar aspiring devs in the past and it always end up in demoralizing its teammate.:\
     

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