Are there any alternatives to Torque Game Builder for 2D games?

Discussion in 'Game Development (Technical)' started by sofakng, May 16, 2007.

  1. stanchat

    Indie Author

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    Actually as clear as day it is stated.

    http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tgb/requirements/

    I think to all the users who did not buy the Pro version thinking it would work out of the box should be upgraded to Pro for FREE or get a partial refund for a defective product.
     
  2. bantamcitygames

    Administrator Original Member Indie Author Greenlit

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    First of all, great discussion (mostly)... Second, I would like to find out more about amaranth's changes to TGB and I imagine everyone else using TGB would like to hear about them too (so thats why this is not a PM).

    If there is something that is going to make it easier for me to release on various portals with TGB I would love to hear about it.

    Thanks!
     
  3. illuminarc

    illuminarc New Member

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    I've been meaning to PM amaranth about the portal changes also, for a current project, so it would be great to hear about them.
     
  4. Infinite Element

    Infinite Element New Member

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    When I downloaded the demo of it looking for a step up from GM, I followed the first example (that fish thing) word for word, and it didn't work. It didn't really leave a great first impression on me. I tried to get it to work, but it didn't.

    Needless to say, I uninstalled it and never looked at it again.

    Has anyone else ever reported that it didn't work?
     
  5. Nikos Beck

    Nikos Beck New Member

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    There were a lot of changes to TGB between 1.1.3 and 1.5.1 and now 1.6. The fish demo, as well as many other code snippets, didn't work between the different versions. Many users looked at 1.5.1 which was very buggy and went back to 1.1.3. With 1.6, most of the 1.5.1 bugs are fixed and it runs far smoother. They also rewrote the demo's.
     
  6. RinkuHero

    RinkuHero New Member

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    "When I downloaded the demo of it looking for a step up from GM"

    Does it actually have any advantages over GM that could be termed a step up? I haven't tried it extensively, but I can't think of very many things (in 2D) that GM doesn't allow you to do.
     
  7. Chroma

    Chroma New Member

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    BlitzMax

    Personally, I would just go buy BlitzMax and also Grey Alien's BlitzMax Game Framework. Lots of games have been released to portals using it (Fairway Solitaire, Sudoku Maya, Wonderful Wizard of Oz to name a few). Both products will cut your dev time immensely too.

    Anyways, just my 2 cents.
     
  8. RinkuHero

    RinkuHero New Member

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    Those aren't very graphically intensive games though. You could make those just as easily in anything.
     
  9. Twitchfactor

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    Hmmm... it all depends on what you consider "graphically intense".

    I've played Fairway and it's doing some pretty solid work. Very nice scaling, rotating, particles. Fairway's a VERY POLISHED product and I wouldn't discount it.

    Also, there's a little game called Gridwars that was done in BlitzMax. It was so good and "graphically intense" that Bizarre Creations had it shut down, because it was infringing upon their little Robotron rip-off; Geometry Wars.

    Also, Thrust Extreme is another game done in BlitzMax. As well as Part One and Part Two, 2 awesome "graphically intense" shooters.

    I'm sure there are countless more...

    I can tell you, just because you buy Unreal3, you're not gonna make Gears of War and the flip side is; just because you rolled-your-own engine, doesn't mean you can't look like Gears.

    The point is; BlitzMax & Grey's Framework are tools, just like anything else. YOU have to make the most out of them.

    I am not interested in making routines & re-inventing the wheel, so I put my money down on Blitz & Grey's and I'm looking forward to make *games*, not making *an engine*.
     
  10. RinkuHero

    RinkuHero New Member

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    I've played some of the games you mentioned, and all I meant was that those could be made in pretty much any 2D game engine, so I see no reason to use one over the other if all of them work pretty much the same.
     
  11. Twitchfactor

    Original Member

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    True, all things being equal.

    It comes down to what you're comfortable with.

    I have both BlitzMax/Grey's Framework and Torque Game Builder. Having spent some time with each of them, I went for BlitzMax in the long-run. Mainly because it's immediately more flexible. With that flexibility comes more up-front set-up, but for me, it's worth it

    At some point, I'll probably use TGB for something, as well as probably Torque's 3D engine, or Novashell or whatever...

    It's all about, "right tool for the right job" and use whatever you're most comfortable with and what allows to you to get to the art of making the game as easily as possible.
     
  12. OremLK

    Indie Author

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    My only two cents on this, since I'm relatively new to the whole thing, is XNA. It's a fantastic tool for 2D game development, and I personally don't have any desire to learn anything else, except...

    ...XNA does come with serious caveats. It has terrible cross-platform support (unless you're trying to develop for Xbox Live Arcade), it has high system requirements for Windows (hardware DX9c and shader model 1.1), and it requires fully three separate packages to run on Windows (.NET framework, DirectX, and XNA Framework), inflating the size of your setup package considerably.

    So basically, I'm looking for another solution myself. My two cents suck.
     
  13. MikeT

    MikeT New Member

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    As others have suggested Blitzmax is a good alternative, but if you go with it then I would suggest using either BlIDE or project studio 2007 as your IDE as the default one isnt great.
     
  14. Twitchfactor

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    I have to concur...

    I was being lazy and using the default MaxIDE for a couple of weeks, thinking, "well, this is okay. It's not that bad." Then I started actually having more than simple tests and had to debug something. Well, after being told "an error has occurred", but not being told where or what one... I went out and got BLide.

    BLide's great! I highly recommend it.

    So, again, my current vote is BlitzMax, Grey's Framework, BLIde.

    At some point, I might go back and check out Torque, but for now, I needed something with more immediate control (especially over how your write to the screen) and flexibility.
     
  15. Desktop Gaming

    Moderator Original Member Indie Author

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    Project Studio is way superior to BLIde - especially if you're used to working within Visual Studio since its near identical in appearance and operation. Aside from that, the last time I tried BLIde a few months back, it worked for about 10 seconds then hung for about a minute, worked for 10 seconds then hung for another minute, repeat ad infinitum.

    Project Studio Express is already available for free and supports BlitzMax. Project Studio Pro (including Solutions/Projects and a bunch of other stuff) is due for imminent release at a bargain price of $20.

    Visit www.projectstudioide.com for more info (and no, I'm not on commission - I just think its a massively overlooked and under-rated product that deserves much more attention than its given).
     
  16. garagedave

    garagedave New Member

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    Torque For Indies

    Matt, I agree with you 100%. Some people want a complete solution for $100.
    And indies have to remember that GG is trying to help them, and none of the engines are perfect. You can spend over $100K with Gamebryo and still have to tweak it, you can spend $1M for UE or $100K for Vicious, etc. So if you have to spend a some time tweaking, then $100 or even $1000 is not a big deal. At least not to me. I am sure that Amaranth has been in touch with GG, if not, might be a good thing. I am sure that GG could charge 100X more and get it because for the money it's a good deal. If some people complain about spending $100, then they should go out and spend $100,000. Torque isn't perfect but GG has been the biggest help to the Indie community. Everybody knows that.
     
  17. stanchat

    Indie Author

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    "EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT"

    It's carte blanche statements like these that drive me crazy. Just so you know I upgraded to TGB 1.5 when it first came out. The basic File IO was completely broken!! You could not write out game preferences to the game directory. It took close to 4mos for you guys to fix this and release TGB 1.6. I do not care if I spend $100 or $1,000 thats just BAD Quality Assurance to release a product with such a blatant BUG. Had it been an integration bug I could of lived with that but it was a bug that should of been caught with any type of basic automated unit testing software.

    For the love of peace please just STABILIZE what you have. STOP letting the GEEKS and NERDS dictate to you about adding obscure functionality to every new release. I would be happy if you spent the time fixing the issues and bugs you have and stop adding this useless stuff right now. According to you guys you have limited resources so start acting accordingly. Also please do some REGRESSION testing when you do release fixes. The current pattern has been for every bug you address/fix you introduce a new issue/bug somewhere else. Please correct that pattern! You need to follow some type of industry standard Change Management Control processes on your software and that would help a lot with the issues I mentioned above.

    Honestly, your products have the potential to be not just good but GREAT, if you guys would just put in the time and start acting like a Big Boy Company and stop whining and sniveling anytime someone has some constructive criticism.
     
    #237 stanchat, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  18. Teeth

    Original Member

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    No, no. We need new things like great games experiment and a wii version of torque, xbox live integration and a new tribes game. Let people keep paying for torque and fixing gg's bugs for them :D

    TBH I really hate GG's attitude when it comes to public relations - they act like friendly people (check garagedave's posts in the ann. forum - each one has its very own smiley! how nice) but then can't accept criticism and you get stuff like the above two GG posts which totally don't help anyone and are just a roundabout way of saying "don't like it? get to fsck then! screw the haters!" - it's infantile. Never mind that Torque is badly documented, barely used in released products, buggy and has terrible support (of the same kind jsut mentioned - if you don't love it you won't get help).
     
  19. Andrej Vojtas

    Andrej Vojtas New Member

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  20. MrPhil

    Original Member

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