Admob soon to be banned?

Discussion in 'Indie Business' started by hippocoder, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. hippocoder

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  2. Maupin

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    Apple is right to ban 3rd party ads. They slow down the iPhone... and whatever will happen in the future if Apple decides to release new iPhone ad API features and a 3rd party ad network like AdMob doesn't support those features?
     
  3. hippocoder

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    Hm, my game with Admob runs 60fps solid. The only time it will chug slightly is if I go over the top and request more ads than I really should be in a foaming frenzy of greed.

    Admob isn't required to support things like flash. Admob isn't a compiler, its just a library for displaying an advert in a position and manner of the programmer's choosing. It's not going to in any way, prevent me from having direct access to all and any Apple frameworks. It is also coded in Objective C and compiled by Apple compilers.

    You can run both admob and iad concurrently if you want.

    In short, its playing by the rules and so Apple has to find other ways to eliminate competition :)

    This probably will generate a huge amount of ill-feeling towards Apple.
     
  4. Bad Sector

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    The agreement says that programs can't send stuff to outside servers for analysis or processing. It doesn't mention anything about ads.
     
  5. princec

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    Unfortunately an HTTP request is not just a request, it's a big payload of interesting, processable information, so technicallly once again, Apple has everyone by the short and curlies.

    Cas :)
     
  6. Bad Sector

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    Well if you think it like this then even twitter or most of the other applications showed in iPhone OS 4 presentation are breaking the agreement.
     
  7. Derek5432

    Derek5432 New Member

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    The agreement specifically says the transmission of "device data" is forbidden without written consent from Apple. So if you send a Tweet, email, etc., that's fine. But if you're transmitting information that's actually useful to ad networks, a lot of that is probably going to fall under "device data".

    Apparently a lot of companies are scrambling to get clarification on the language to see exactly how it's going to affect their business. The jury is still out, but it certainly looks like in response to the growing competition in the smartphone space, Apple is tightening the leash and making iPhone much more closed and restrictive than it already was.

    I think this is going to backfire horribly for them. A lot of devs will rationalize that the iPhone is still the biggest dog in town, so they get to make the rules. But Android is growing amazingly fast, and as an open platform with virtually no restrictions, when more and more devs see other devs actually making good cash on a platform that doesn't hamstring them or treat them like children, they're going to defect. And where the apps go, the market share goes.
     
  8. hippocoder

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    Apple are pissing developers off in a number of ways and there is a limit to how pissed off people will be before saying "well fuck off then".
     
  9. Jack Norton

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    You know, don't get angry, but I noticed this :D

    Is fun to see how you basically defend Apple on this other thread (just check what you said!) and now you're starting to hate them as soon as they do something that hurt you directly :rolleyes:
     
  10. hippocoder

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    No, I'm not that shallow. If you need the code to figure me out I can post it but I don't think you're that bored are you?

    I haven't changed my mind or opinion. Its OK to disagree with one side and agree with the other.

    Banning Flash is healthy for an entire platform. Banning adverts hurts independent developers in a way that you can't work around. I am also strictly against Apple culling what languages you can use that do work with Xcode nicely.

    Flash is an independant development platform which is like the wild west: its bad all round.

    Admob is just a lib and additional languages improve the quality of life for indies and those I am defending :)
     
  11. KNau

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    It looks like Apple is introducing their own ad solution for the iPhone so now they are locking out competition. North Americans won't care but it would be really interesting to see how this flies in the EU where monopoly laws are actually enforced.
     
  12. Bad Sector

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    Currently Apple has 99+% of app market share. Changing that overnight will be difficult :). Also Android might be more "open" in the sense that they don't say (yet) what you can and cant do in it, but its not like they don't have their own set of problems and restrictions. For a few of them (like selling apps from only a few countries, *many* different configurations and hardware combinations to worry about, limited C++ support, etc) check the other thread about C++ on Android.
     
  13. Game Producer

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    Yeh, iphone os 4 thing comes with its own ad system which devs can easily use. HTML5 based I believe.

    Check the keynote:
    http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/specialevent0410/

    (I haven't watched this - yet - but heard one mac fanatic praising this :))
     
  14. Derek5432

    Derek5432 New Member

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    I'm not sure if I buy that figure. There's this report:

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-responsible-for-994-of-mobile-app-sales-in-2009.ars

    But a lot has changed, even since the beginning of the year. The Android app store is up to 38,000 apps and Android is now on 30+ devices. I think an updated report would indicate a larger slice of the pie to Android. And I'm not sure the extent to which that report looked at advertising revenue.

    I've seen market reports that indicate that Android is heavily male-skewed, and that Android users are less likely than iPhone users to purchase paid apps. This is why the free app w/ads model is more likely to do well on Android. I can tell you, I'm doing very well on Android right now, and about half my revenue comes from ads. In contrast, I have a port of one of my games to iPhone, and click-through rates and earnings are substantially lower on that platform.

    As far as the openness of Android, I can also tell you that when you hit the Publish button, your app goes live on the market in about 5 minutes. I've never had an app pre-screened or banned in a year of publishing on the Android Market. Seems pretty darn open to me.
     
  15. Spore Man

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    I'm getting a little sick of hearing this. While the PC Flash player is something of a "beast", that's because it contains backwards compatibility going back all the way to the first solid version of streaming Flash media (we're talking 10 year old format predating even the fully fleshed out Actionscript 1.0).

    With the introduction of Actionscript 3, they wrote any entirely new player engine that plays AS3 Flash files (only you don't notice because it's packaged "as one" with the old backward compatible player). They optimized both the language and the player such that it's actually possible to make 2D games that run at 60 fps on a regular PC. Video can take advantage of hardware accelleration. It's fast. It's optimized. And the best part is, it's not handled by a big duct-taped player trying to be compatible with everything. If it's AS3, it runs only the AS3 engine. If it's anything older, it runs the old slow part of the player.

    Now what is this rambling getting at? Well, the Iphone compiling is AS3 ONLY. That means the fast optimized language and fast optimized player. None of the old slow crap is supported. So the excuse that Flash is this big lumbering frankenstein that needs to be put down is misinformed. It's only true where AS1 and AS2 are concerned.
     
  16. hippocoder

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    Who are you to tell adobe to batch opengl calls for example?
     
  17. Bad Sector

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    In which universe?
     
  18. hippocoder

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    In fact why don't you download the 7 flash iPhone games on adobe's site (links to appstore).

    And see for yourself how shocking the performance is with one picture and a couple of buttons.
     
  19. JGOware

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    Flash is fast enough. - http://www.freewebarcade.com/game/quake-flash/

    "In fact why don't you download the 7 flash iPhone games on adobe's site (links to appstore). And see for yourself how shocking the performance is with one picture and a couple of buttons."

    That's not really a fair comparison since it's not really "Flash" that is running. The iphone migration tool that was in CS5 was really just a (very poorly written) tech demo more than anything else. There was talk that future versions would support native hardware rendering. But I don't think that's a priority anymore. ;)

    Languages don't make bad games, people do. ;)
     
  20. Bad Sector

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    Fast enough as a 100MHz Pentium CPU? That less than what my laptop autoconfigures itself to cope with overheating :p

    Ok honestly, i was impressed when i initially saw it, but i wasn't impressed because it was fast. On the contrary, i was impressed because i knew Flash was SLOTH SLOW.

    When i wrote RayFaster 2 in Flash (haXe, which generally has a more optimizing compiler than adobe's), i also wrote the rendering code in Java. The Java code and the haXe/Flash code are 99% the same. The small differences are in Java to make it a bit more dynamic since the scene will change more frequently and less error-prone (not throwing exceptions, etc). So the Java code had more to do than the Flash code. Also the Java renderer used 4x more pixels (512x384 instead of 256x192), which was the initial resolution i planed to use until i realized i couldn't even FILL the framebuffer fast enough (note: that was Flash 9, FP10 was still in beta when i started this) in 512x384. Fast enough is at least 60fps here btw. Even then the Java renderer is much smoother than the Flash renderer.

    And Java isn't fast either, in fact rendering stuff is the worst thing you can do with Java, but in terms of "what you can put in a browser and have a good bet that the program will run" is currently the fastest -by far- solution. Also when things aren't as fast, you can just load native code.
     

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